Some terminology to note and used to negotiate the price:
- Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP): this is the price you see on the sticker
- Invoice Price: What the dealer is paying the manufacturer (it's best to have invoice numbers for the car & EVERY option, we'll address that in the tools section below)
- Rebates: we all know what these are ;) ( look these up, they may not offer them up!!! )
- Incentives: similar to rebates ( look these up, they may not offer them up!!! )
- Technical Service Bulletins (TSB): flaws acknowledged by manufacturer but not categorized as a recall
- Why are these important: You may never be told or find out about them and they may go unnoticed or applied till symptoms come up
- Destination Fees: transport fees added to all card for delivery to dealer
- Market Availability: certain brands/dealers may add this to VERY limited models (the Prowler was one example, MSRP of $45K but most dealer were adding 10-15K or more in the 90s)
- TAX/Title/TAGs: yep, you know what these are!
Did you know?
- Key here is to build a portfolio of the one or few cars you have your options narrowed to
- Education on the car, it's history and pricing/options is VERY important
- You would want to know as much or more about the car than the sales rep (not knocking them but most are not car people, they are simply sales folks trying to make an honest living)
- The dealership manager is the final authority (or the manager on site)
- The finance manager also can play a VERY key role, there was one in Greenville that cost Fairway a deal from me over $250 - not very smart when they could have made $3000 on my trade at a minimum (I chatted with the owner's son to file a complaint after he made me spend ALL Saturday sitting there when he could have told me that hours earlier ... I simply wanted to buy local from my FAV Subi Sales rep =)
- Two types of dealers that tend to make the best deal: Volume dealers (they count on volume sales back end rebates from the manufacturer) and small town dealers (Hendersonville Subaru vs. MotorMile for example from above - they paid me exactly what I wanted for my Prius trade site un seen because I was being fair and they pulled all my records)
Tools for New Cars:
- Your bank or credit union: they may offer car buying agent services to members at no charge
- They do all this stuff we're talking about for you !!
- Your employer: Some have business to business discounts, ask and find out
- Your occupation: they can get you rebates !!! (armed forces rebates, teacher/student rebates and specials at times)
- Know your lemon laws, here it is for SC: http://www.consumer.sc.gov/faqs/Pages/lemonlaw.aspx
- know your invoice pricing, a couple great resources below:
- http://www.truecar.com/ (will show you invoice prices down to options)
- also shows you what are the price ranges paid in your area
- and which dealers participate and willing to honor the best pricing ranges
- http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/ (same info and another good source)
- Both of these will let you know what rebates are available too
- Get the KBB values for your car !!!
- You want to know both trade in and dealer resale values
- THEY WILL OFFER YOU WAY BELOW WHAT YOU CAR IS WORTH initially
- Know your initial reliability reports (many out there but here is one):
- http://truedelta.com/
- crowd sourced real time info from daily usage
- What people are reporting for actual MPG and repairs
- Enroll your existing car to get access to full reports
- TSB look ups:
- TSBs are non mandatory / voluntary documents issued to dealers for manufacturing flaws
- Most of those are not advertised and unlike recalls (mandatory notifications) you will never get notified
- Before buying a new car request a list of all applicable TSBs and match them against the car you're interested in (if you see any serious drive train related TSBs ... walk away for that year production model and track till it's resolved)
- If you're doing research, this site can pull most the critical ones up:
- http://www.tsbsearch.com/ (this is where I found the actual TSB related to the engine chirp, printed it and provided to Toyota dealer's service department which wasn't aware of any issues when I took my car in the first time)
- Couple more really important link for trouble reports, recalls and TSBs:
- http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners
- http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/
Sample TrueCar info:
TrueDelta Sample:
Warning:
- Stay away from first year production or a mid cycle mechanical re design year
- I knew this but chose to skip this for the FR-S and 5 month later purchasing a 2nd new one still don't have it to drive for probably another month or so
- this is because it's IMPOSSIBLE for any one to uncover ALL issues in a sterile development cycle (we the users break just about ANYTHING =)
- Also there is no WAY for any manufacturer to know long term reliability of third party sourced components
- so WAIT
When to buy:
- If you're buying new and it's not an emergency (as in car down no transportation) don't rush
- Know the car companies business quarter and year end cycle (there is ALWAYS a push to get max sales at those times and incentives roll in )
- Year end holiday specials (naturally)
- Know when new models ship, this is a bit deceiving, some car makers ship 2014 models in late summer 2013!!! Odd I know
- New is new ... buy one year behind model (or two !!! I bought a brand new TOP of the line $40k 350Z two years old sitting new on the lot for $29K with ALL warranties in tact and only 30 miles on the ODO - this is my now 8+ year old 350Z which I ABSOLUTELY love ... with my trade and 10yr/100 mile warranty, and lifetime oil negotiated I walked out the door financing $22.5K)
My day at the dealer(s):
- I basically create a portfolio of all the info above
- Usually for me it's one make one model I'm after (have a few options)
- Print it all out and have it broken down by:
- Invoice for car & options
- Incentives
- Truecar certificate willing to honor the best price in hand - usually not your local dealer but a remote regional volume dealer
- Also get the KBB ones (they match and you can show it's not a fluke .. but actual market research)
- TSB reports (you want to maych those against your final choice by VIN and make sure it's in the clear or if any symptoms exists they apply it
- If it's drive train related ... walk away and find another VIN (just less headaches)
- Reliability reports
- MPG reports
- Check their internet prices: Sometimes they have the same car marked down with a internet sale discount (I found an extra $1000 when I bought my used Civic that way!!!)
- Print everyone's prices out
- Big points here:
- If you don't like the people approaching you ... walk
- If you know dealers and have existing relationships go back to them ... I have a few long time personal friends now from Greenville dealers
- Be nice to your sales guy/gal but ask for the manager (they hold the final key - I don't tolerate back and forth, just get me the guy plz)
- Drive more than one of the models you like, NO TWO cars even the same exact model are the same
- If one feels better than the other, that's yours =)
- Don't rush the test drive, let the car idle and warm up before you go, this takes about one or two radio songs, check out the radio and infotainment for a song or two, then you're warmed up and ready to go
- Some noises and glitches only show up after warm up (engine chirp problems in my FR-S)
- Listen for any ABNORMAL rattles and sounds (if you find it abnormal ASK)
- I give the dealer 1 hour:
- I give them a minimum $1500 value to them on my trade
- If they don't agree to my trade I walk (no point to stay)
- Beyond trade value, rest I only deal invoice plus or minus (MSRP is a no go - if that's the only number they are willing to work on ... walk)
- Most my transactions are invoice or less, and dealer makes $1500-3000 over my trade in ONE hour + their volume incentives later since I bought a new car =)
- If they go back and forth WALK after the 3rd time
- Have two or three dealers quote you their best package, give each an hour or so MAX (some will do it over the phone)
- If you have a long term dealer they will meet and beat for return business
- Fairway Subaru does that for me ALL day and not only that, they even order low production number cars under my name for their dealership when they run out of allocations (Subaru STi and Ford Shelby)
- In this case for me there is no point in shopping around, I help them, they give me invoice or better in which case my time and gas $$$ is not worth it and I'd rather support local
You've settled on the car and dealer, now what?
- When you go to sign for it you'll talk to the finance manager
- He will be covering aux packages with you for warranty, protection and service
- Don't rule this out, here is why:
- If you're buying a new car that's from the last year's model
- Or was a demo car
- You have room to negotiate easily for some of these packages (and you should anyways otherwise as well)
- I usually ask them if I get extended warranty and pre paid maintenance if they can reduce the combo via a discount or throw in some other piece of the extra plans
- This is KEY only if you REALLY want to keep the car for 60-100K or more
- for example on the 2005 Nissan 350Z i bough in 2007:
- I negotiated the 10yr/100K mile warranty ($1599), 2 complete sets of wheels tires storlen or damaged ($2000), free oil change for life at Dick Smith ($1499)
- I got ALL three packages while agreeing to buy the car on the spot for $2500
- 6 years of driving and yet to pay for an oil change and one wheel cracked and they replaced it after an inspection for impact no questions asked (wheel cost from OEM Nissan $1000+)
Ok, you did all that and now are a proud owner of a new car, now what?
- Get very familiar with your state's lemon law (link above in tools for SC)
- Ask for the customer experience line numbers for the brand
- If you run into any glitches (Specially drive train related)
- First go and search the truedelta and TSB link above and if it matches PRINT out the TSB as you take the car in
- The first time you take it back, open a case with the manufacturer consumer experience line
- I skipped this (and I knew better) and it turned into 4 month of trying to get a lemon fixed
- I work 24/7 so I didn't have time to invoke lemon law but I should have!!!
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